Sanna Marin on Changing Your Mind without Losing Yourself

Show notes

In this episode of The Art of Diplomacy, Florence Gaub speaks with former Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin.

Leading a country through a pandemic, an energy crisis, Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, and Finland’s historic accession to NATO, Marin faced a series of decisions that challenged long-held assumptions about security, leadership, and political strategy.

In this conversation, she reflects on the role of trust in resilient societies, the importance of listening in negotiation, and why effective leaders must be willing to change course when circumstances shift. Drawing on her experience steering Finland through one of the most consequential periods in its modern history, Marin explains why knowing your own goals is just as important as understanding those of your counterpart.

The discussion explores Finland’s distinctive approach to security and preparedness, the political and diplomatic path into NATO, and the challenge of building consensus in moments of profound uncertainty. At its heart, however, this is a conversation about adaptability: how individuals, governments, and societies can remain flexible without abandoning their values—and why the ability to change your mind may be one of the most important leadership skills of all.

Before the conversation with Sanna Marin, Florence Gaub is joined by Benedikt Franke, CEO of the Munich Security Conference, to reflect on Finland’s remarkable journey into NATO and the diplomatic leadership that helped make it possible.

This episode was recorded in May 2026 in Hamburg.