The Art of Diplomacy

The Art of Diplomacy is a bi-weekly podcast that brings global politics down from the podium and into conversation. Hosted by Florence Gaub and Joshua Yaffa, and created by the Munich Security Conference, it opens up the often opaque world of diplomacy to a broader audience.
Through in-depth one-on-one interviews, the podcast explores diplomacy as a craft. Each episode features experienced practitioners — policymakers, diplomats, military leaders, and thinkers — who have spent their careers negotiating agreements, managing crises, and trying to resolve conflicts.
Together, they reflect on what diplomacy really looks like in practice: how decisions are made under pressure, how trade-offs are navigated, and how common ground is found.
Recorded in part on the sidelines of the Munich Security Conference, the podcast offers rare personal insights into the realities behind world politics — and asks one central question: What is the Art of Diplomacy?

New episodes are released every other Friday.

Florence Gaub is Director of the Research Division at the NATO Defense College in Rome, where she focuses on future security challenges and strategic foresight. She brings deep expertise on how conflicts evolve — and how they can be prevented.

Joshua Yaffa is a staff writer at The New Yorker, covering Russia, Ukraine, and international politics. His work combines sharp political analysis with a strong sense for the human stories behind global events.

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Latest episodes

The End of an Era, The Beginning of Another (with Wolfgang Ischinger)

‧ 44m 59s

After a lifetime spent at the center of international diplomacy, Ambassador Wolfgang Ischinger joins Florence Gaub and Joshua Yaffa for the season finale of The Art of Diplomacy.
From the Dayton Peace Accords to German reunification, from the United Nations during the Yom Kippur War to his years as Germany’s ambassador in Washington and as chairman of the Munich Security Conference, Ischinger reflects on more than five decades of diplomacy at the highest level.
He shares lessons from negotiating peace in Bosnia, explains why trust remains diplomacy’s most valuable currency, argues for the return of quiet backchannel diplomacy, and reflects...

Persistence, Power, and the Iran Deal (with Wendy Sherman)

‧ 61m 7s

In this episode of The Art of Diplomacy, Joshua Yaffa speaks with Wendy Sherman, former US Deputy Secretary of State and the lead American negotiator of the Iran nuclear agreement.
Drawing on decades of experience, from negotiations with North Korea to the marathon talks that produced the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA), Sherman offers a candid look at what diplomacy requires when trust is in short supply and the stakes are exceptionally high.
She reflects on the importance of preparation, the role of back-channel diplomacy, and why understanding an adversary’s interests, history, and political constraints matters more than liking...

Boiling the Frog — Germany, Ukraine, and Escalation (with Wolfgang Schmidt)

‧ 75m 38s

In this episode of The Art of Diplomacy, Josh Yaffa speaks with Wolfgang Schmidt, former Head of the German Chancellery and one of Chancellor Olaf Scholz’s closest advisers during the first years of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine.
Schmidt offers a rare behind-the-scenes account of how Germany navigated the most consequential foreign policy crisis in Europe since the end of the Cold War. He reflects on the origins of the Zeitenwende speech, the difficult decisions around military support for Ukraine, and the challenge of balancing solidarity with the risks of escalation.
The conversation explores one of the central strategic debates...

Changing Your Mind without Losing Yourself (with Sanna Marin)

‧ 46m 21s

In this episode of The Art of Diplomacy, Florence Gaub speaks with former Finnish Prime Minister Sanna Marin.

Leading a country through a pandemic, an energy crisis, Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, and Finland’s historic accession to NATO, Marin faced a series of decisions that challenged long-held assumptions about security, leadership, and political strategy.

In this conversation, she reflects on the role of trust in resilient societies, the importance of listening in negotiation, and why effective leaders must be willing to change course when circumstances shift. Drawing on her experience steering Finland through one of the most consequential periods in...

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